Building the Empathy Movement with Rhetorical Empathy
Speaker:  Lou Agosta     (15 min) 

To Video, Summary, AI, Outline, Full Transcripts 

Lou Agosta_1

Transcript

https://otter.ai/u/aP_rhuNHh1xNNMUexivM7xienLU?view=summary

Lou Agosta, PhD, an empathy consultant and clinical assistant professor of psychiatry, discussed the concept of rhetorical empathy, emphasizing its importance in building the empathy movement. He highlighted Malcolm X's statement as a prime example of rhetorical empathy, explaining how it resonated with an African American audience in 1964. Agosta differentiated between empathy, which involves listening, and rhetoric, which involves speaking, suggesting that rhetorical empathy bridges these two practices. He also referenced John Stuart Mill's principle of toleration, advocating for empathy training to drive out fear and bullying, and concluded with a quote from Bob Dylan, underscoring the need for empathy in understanding others' perspectives.

Action Items

• [ ] Follow up and continue communication with Imogen regarding the shared email and next steps (Lou already sent an initial email and indicated further communication will occur).

• [ ] Provide/share the 110-second Malcolm X video as part of the presentation materials so attendees can view the example of rhetorical empathy.

Outline

Introduction of Lou Agosta

• Speaker 1 introduces Lou Agosta, highlighting his credentials as an empathy consultant and author of three peer-reviewed books on empathy.

• Lou Agosta is also a clinical assistant professor of psychiatry at Ross University School of Medicine and Saint Anthony's Hospital in Chicago.

• The meeting's focus is on building the empathy movement with rhetorical empathy.

• Lou Agosta begins his speech by expressing gratitude and humorously addressing the topic of self-promotion.

Lou Agosta's Background and Publications

• Lou Agosta mentions his interest in storytelling and reading, specifically referencing Imogen Bond.

• He discusses his book "Radical Empathy in the Context of Literature," emphasizing its focus on grown-up literature.

• Lou Agosta recommends that institutions or libraries should order a copy of his academic book.

• He introduces the concept of rhetorical empathy and its significance in his presentation.

Example of Rhetorical Empathy: Malcolm X

• Lou Agosta shares a video clip of Malcolm X, highlighting his statement, "Fathers weren't the pilgrims. We didn't land on Plymouth Rock. The Rock was landed on us."

• He explains the historical context of Malcolm X's speech, emphasizing its impact on an African American audience in 1964.

• Lou Agosta describes rhetorical empathy as a form of empathic responsiveness that addresses the listener's experience.

• He explains how rhetorical empathy can make the audience feel heard, even when the speaker is the one listening.

Theoretical Framework of Rhetorical Empathy

• Lou Agosta elaborates on the distinction between empathy and rhetoric, noting that empathy is about listening, while rhetoric is about speaking.

• He suggests that the practices of empathy and rhetoric are not mutually exclusive but can complement each other.

• Lou Agosta emphasizes the importance of the speaker knowing the other person to effectively practice rhetorical empathy.

• He explains that rhetorical empathy involves incorporating the listener's perspective into the speaker's message.

John Stuart Mill's Principle of Toleration

• Lou Agosta introduces John Stuart Mill's principle, which relates to radical toleration and empathy.

• He explains Mill's statement about the justification for silencing opinions, emphasizing the importance of minority rights.

• Lou Agosta connects Mill's principle to the concept of radical empathy, highlighting its relevance to contemporary issues.

• He discusses the importance of critical thinking and the challenges of teaching it effectively.

Empathy Training and Practical Applications

• Lou Agosta outlines a one-minute empathy training that focuses on driving out fear, bullying, and negative politics.

• He emphasizes the need to create a context of toleration and acceptance to foster empathy.

• Lou Agosta shares the story of the emperor's new clothes as an example of speaking truth to power.

• He concludes with a quotation from Bob Dylan, highlighting the importance of empathy and understanding.

Closing Remarks and Audience Feedback

• Speaker 1 expresses appreciation for Lou Agosta's presentation, drawing parallels to a recent fireside topic in their eco village.

• The speaker emphasizes the importance of teaching children to listen and understand, not just to talk.

• Lou Agosta's concept of rhetorical listening is seen as a bridge between talking at and understanding with.

• The meeting concludes with a positive note on the potential of empathy to enhance communication and community.

Transcript 

Speaker 1  0:00  

It is now my pleasure to introduce Lou Augusta, PhD, and is an empathy consultant, the author of three peer reviewed books on empathy, including radical empathy in the context of literature, the empathy lessons. And he is a clinical assistant professor of psychiatry, psychiatry, wow. I said that one weird the wrong emphasis on the wrong syllable at Ross University, School of Medicine and Saint Anthony's Hospital in Chicago. Today we're going to be he's going to be speaking on building the empathy movement with rhetorical empathy. Take it away.

Lou Agosta  0:33  

Well, thank you for that gracious introduction, Kara and thank you, Edwin for putting this all together and the whole team. This is not an easy thing to do, so I must say, I am humbled by the speakers and the material presented so far. The one thing really missing in my life is that my name is not Tony Scruggs, but I do not want to undercut myself. I have a contribution to make. I'm not kidding about, I mean, well done. And the business about menful and the app that is definitely trending. And in the world of shameless self promotion, we're going to have get rid of the going to handle the shameless self promotion right up front. I'm into storytelling and reading and as if so, you know, a big, a big, I sent Imogen, Imogen bond, I sent you an email. We'll communicate further. But I do write and publish. I hope that this comes through. I don't. Is this straight radical empathy? In the context of literature? It looks like it? Is it presented backwards there? I don't know, but any No, it's presented straight, or is it crooked? It looks good, okay, good. Radical empathy in the context of so it's about examples of empathy and literature, not children's literature. This is grown up literature, and it's an expensive book, an academic book, so the recommendation and the request is to have your institute, university or college library or local library, for that matter, they have budget for this sort of stuff to order a copy. So I'm going to talk about, I actually have a presentation. I'm going to talk about rhetorical empathy. And I like the good advice about, you know, don't get hung up on the PowerPoints, although they do have their uses. Here's the 110 second video that I want to share. Let's see if this, this is, of course, Malcolm X here. Here's an example of radical empathy.

Speaker 2  2:34  

Fathers weren't the pilgrims. We didn't land on Plymouth Rock. The Rock was landed on us.

Lou Agosta  2:43  

Okay, that's it. That's an so why and how it gets a laugh, right? I mean, it is like painful truth and and so let's take a moment. This is, I submit, I suggest, a stunning example of rhetorical empathy, where he's addressing the meeting founding the Organization of African American unity. This is 1964 this is before the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, and a predominantly African American audience. We didn't land on Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock was landed on us. Plymouth Rock. Most people know that's where the Pilgrims landed. But you may be, if you're from somewhere else, you may not know the Pilgrims you know, got to the USA. They landed on Plymouth Rock. The next thing you know, they're having, we're having Thanksgiving, and it's a kind of cultural event. So rhetorical empathy, and this is to expanding the structure and the movement rhetorical empathy is not well known. It's not a common distinction, and it refers to empathic responsiveness, speaking into the listening of the person with whom one is attempting to empathize with a form of words that indicates what under that that one understands what the other person has experienced. So one aspect of empathy is that when it works, the audience or the other person is the experience of being heard, even though it's the other, the other person that's doing the listening, so the person is left, right? This is a major result, if you can get there. I mean, high fives, one the other person who is was the speaker and sharing whatever they were sharing and dealing with suffering, struggle, success, you know, the whole the whole spectrum. So the speaker takes the in rhetorical empathy. So, you know, I get you, man, I feel vicarious experience or not, or top down empathy, take a take a walk in the other person's shoes. So I then, you know, I mean, without saying something, empathy is a. Tree in the forest which falls and there's nobody there. Well, does it make a sound? I mean, well, the molecules are moving. But if there's nobody there, nobody is listening. So the speaker who was listening to the other person share the speaker takes the experience of the other person, which means that I, as the listener have to know the other person, this in the sense of what the other person is about and what's important to him or her, and give back to the other the experience of that person's struggle and suffering or success or accomplishment or problem solving, or what's out, whatever's whatever the other individual, man or woman is up to. And so, so there. So at the risk of oversimplification, empathy is supposed to be about listening, receiving the inbound message, whereas rhetoric the art of speaking well. So I mean rhetoric in a positive sense that rhetoric, the art of speaking well, is usually regarded as about speaking, bringing forth, expressing and communicating the outbound message. So once again, in in the case of empathy, the initial direction of communication is inbound. I get you, man, I get what's going on or not. You know, questions, comments struggle to understand. Whereas in the case of rhetoric, the message, the communication is outbound. You didn't land on Plymouth Rock. Plymouth Rock was landed on you yet. So the practices of empathy and rhetoric are not as far as a part as may at first seem to be the case, and it would not be surprising if the apparent contrary directionality turned out to be a loop, and the arts of empathy and rhetoric reciprocally enable different aspects of authentic relatedness, community sharing, empowering communication. So I summarize, I say again, in rhetorical empathy, the speaker's words address the listening of the other person, or persons, in such a way to leave the other with the experience of having been heard. This may seem counterintuitive, since it's the other that's doing the listening. The hidden variable here there's a hidden variable. This is the trick, if you will, the deep structure of this is that the speaker knows the other in the sense that he or she has walked a mile in the others person's shoes. You know, I take off my shoes and I try on yours. Don't forget to take off your shoes before you you try on the shoes of the other person, so you can know where they pinch and can articulate the experience of the other, what the other is implicitly harboring in his or her heart and has been unable to express. So, you know, what seems like a paradox rhetorical empathy, but isn't empathy about listening what seemed like a paradox is resolved as the distinction between oneself and the other person, the speaker and the listener is bridged, and a way of speaking that incorporates the other's listening into one, speaking is brought forth and expressed. So rhetorical empathy is a way of speaking that incorporates the others listening into one speaking in such a way that the other is able to hear what is being said. Okay, so I'm, I'm terribly behind schedule, but it's got, we're going to, we, you know, there's sufficient time. I'm going to give you another example. This example is a little more complicated, but I'm going to give it anyway. So there's somebody named John Stuart Mill, and he's one of the innovators around critical thinking. You know, connect statements to facts. Take a walk. Think from the opponent's point of view. You disagree with someone trying to take a point of view critical there's a lot more to it. I mean, and this is to education as well. Teach critical thinking. I mean, you can't do this in two weeks. I mean, you know, I mean it, you can do it in two weeks, but it really takes two years to master, right? So mill says, you know, this is, give you the whole sentence here. It's like, it's a long sentence, if all mankind, if all of humanity. You know the 8p 8 billion people on the planet. If all mankind were of all mankind, minus one person were of a certain opinion, and only that one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be. No more justified in silencing that one person than he or she, if they had the power, would be justified in silencing all of humanity, all of mankind. So you get it. This is minority rights, another way of putting it in a single phrase, you know,

Lou Agosta  10:21  

majority rule is important, and we love democracy, and doesn't always work quite that way. This is an expression of radical toleration and radical it relates to radical empathy. I may not agree with you, but I defend your right to say it, and at this point we need to stop and just reinsert, not just but reinsert Tony Scruggs statement. Basically, I feel like we could just replay his statement and not to undercut my own. It's very some good material here. Nevertheless, at this point, reinsert what he said about make observations, not judgments. This is powerful stuff. We want to we actually do want to see if you withhold the PowerPoint people really want will want it then they they said they demand it from you. So you know, one does not have to worry about the nuanced expression of what the other person is authentically thinking and feeling. One doesn't need a subtle and sensitive empathy to get what is going on with the other guy, man or woman, if they tell you something confronting, x, y, z, it sucks. Your empathy is off. And the reason is XYZ, right? You're going to hear about it. I mean, not a lot of subtle empathy is needed to get the message there. One is going to hear about it directly from the other person as he or she exercises the right of self expression. So, you know, here's the thing, Mills principle. This is a principle of toleration. It lowers the bar on empathy and makes empathy are easier. It's the teachable moment. Nothing needs to be hidden for fear of censorship or reprisal. This is the one minute empathy training, and I see I have actually two minutes left, so that's perfect. Drive out fear, drive out bullying, drive out bad language, drive out politics in the negative sense. And empathy naturally comes forth. People want to be empathic, and if given half a chance, will be so. But you see, this is a big job. Drive out bullying, aggression, hostility, violence, I mean. So you know, the one minute training, the training can be delivered in a minute. It really can, but to create the context of toleration and acceptance is, you know, that's a that's a big job. So I'm going to wrap it up here with, well, actually, in the matter of of storytelling, I do want to tell the story of the emperor's new clothes, right? I mean, this is the confronting moment, but, but, but Your Highness, Your Majesty, your rear end is hung out, your, your what, in this case, your white, hairy, naked rear end is hung out to dry, and because you got sold a bill of goods and a bunch of clothes. So speak what you know, speak truth to power, which is, of course, what Malcolm X is doing there. And I will say another poet who does that. And I'm going to wrap this up here with, you know, a quotation from that poet, Bob Dylan, who takes up arms against this is a poem, poem, if you will, 1965 about climate change. He may not have appreciated it, but come you know that you know the song. Come gather around I wish I could do a Dylan accent. Come gather around people wherever you roam, and admit that the waters around you have grown and accepted that you'll soon be drenched to the bone. If your time to you is worth saving, then you better start swimming, or you'll sink like a stone for the times they are changing. So this is a space of inquiry, of asking what's possible, brainstorming, calling forth projects in action. This results in a rigorous and critical empathy. Nor should going forward any committed empathy advocate refer to empathy in any other way. The poet gets the last example of rhetorical empathy. One has to, I get it. One has to put off the shore of certainty and venture forth into the unknown. Dylan interrupts his climate change advocacy to become an empathy enthusiast. He gets the last word, I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes, and for just one moment I could be you.

Speaker 1  14:43  

Lou, that was amazing. Thank you so very much. So I live in an eco village, and I hear a mirror of one of our fireside topics from just the other day. We teach children to speak, if we're lucky, we teach adults to listen, and a few folks learn to understand. And. Empathy helps bridge the gap between talking at and understanding with and it sounds like this rhetorical listening set is part of that bridge. I love it. Thank you so much.