EMPATHY CIRCLE
The Empathy Summit focused on building the empathy movement through various approaches. A PhD student from Indiana University discussed the core mechanisms of empathy and its role in depolarization and bridging divides. Participants shared their experiences, including the challenges of promoting empathy circles due to time commitments and the importance of self-empathy. The group discussed strategies like short films, marches, and integrating empathy practices into therapy and education. They also highlighted the significance of organizations like Braver Angels and Bridge USA in fostering empathy and the potential for adapting empathy circles to diverse age groups.
[ ] @Edwin Rutsch - Close all breakout rooms so participants are moved into the main room within the next 60 seconds.
[ ] @Edwin Rutsch - Follow up with Kevin Waldman to schedule an interview or dialogue about his article critical of empathy and his subsequent turnaround in support of empathy circles.
[ ] @Edwin Rutsch - Develop and expand the existing empathy training curriculum into a public-domain resource that is easy for others to use and adapt for different populations.
[ ] @Edwin Rutsch - Plan and execute more frequent use of the empathy tent as an empathic activism strategy, building on Kevin Waldman’s ideas about empathic demonstrations.
[ ] Join Braver Angels using the free membership provided by the Empathy Center to deepen involvement in bridging political divides.
[ ] Explore piloting the moral decision-making game with different age groups (e.g., older adults, K–12 students, undergraduates) to test its adaptability and effectiveness.
[ ] Continue exploring how to use the instructional system section at Indiana University to support the empathy-related training and curriculum project.
Edwin Rutsch and Janna Weiss initiate the meeting, assigning roles for the first speaker and listener.
Speaker 1, a PhD student in psychology and cognitive science, discusses their research on morality, viewpoint diversity, and empathy.
Selene Aitken summarizes Speaker 1's focus on building the empathy movement, depolarization, and bridging divides through empathy circles.
Speaker 1 emphasizes the importance of doing empathy right and distinguishing true empathy from negative forms within academia.
Selene Aitken shares her experience with resistance to empathy circles due to time commitments.
Janna Weiss acknowledges Selene's slow pace and the challenge of getting people to commit time to empathy circles.
Selene expresses hope that individual practices will eventually lead to broader acceptance of empathy circles.
Janna Weiss reflects on her own experience of speaking quickly due to childhood influences and the value of empathy circles in slowing down.
Mahib shares their joy in participating in empathy circles and the impact of their work in therapy and supervising associates.
Derry reflects on the challenges of maintaining empathy practices due to confidentiality and family responsibilities.
Edwin Rutsch discusses the importance of self-empathy and the structure needed to support it.
Gillian expresses excitement about the varied ways people are using empathy circles and the potential for normalizing empathy practices.
Selene Aitken explores the barriers to empathy, particularly within academia, and the concept of "spotlight empathy."
Speaker 1 shares their personal background and the value they see in empathy despite academic skepticism.
Selene Aitken emphasizes the importance of bridging the gap between academic and practical perspectives on empathy.
Terry reflects on the grief experienced due to the lack of empathy and the importance of self-empathy in their practice.
Selene Aitken suggests practical strategies like short films and marches to promote empathy circles.
Terry shares their activist side and the idea of a march to promote empathy circles.
Edwin Rutsch discusses the importance of hosting summits to share stories and build a sense of community.
Janna Weiss reflects on the potential for training a large number of people in empathy circles and the importance of a strong foundation.
Terry shares their experience of connecting with the energy of empathy and the importance of self-empathy.
Janna Weiss reflects on the nourishing energy of empathy and the hope it brings.
Selene Aitken acknowledges the impact of empathy circles on her caregiving skills and the importance of not imposing her own concerns.
Janna Weiss shares her aspirations for the global empathy movement and the potential for bridging political divides.
Janna Weiss discusses the Empathy Center's membership in the Braver Angels Network and the availability of free memberships.
Speaker 1 expresses excitement about joining Braver Angels and the potential for their game to promote empathy and viewpoint diversity.
Mahib reflects on the different demographics of organizations like Braver Angels and Bridge USA.
Janna Weiss shares the potential for adapting empathy circles to various age groups and the importance of reaching out to critics of empathy.
Edwin Rutsch shares a story about reaching out to a critic of empathy and the positive impact of dialogue.
Janna Weiss acknowledges Terry's significant contributions to the empathy movement, including organizing training events and connecting with ethical culture.
Edwin Rutsch mentions the potential for collaborating with Indiana University's top training center for instructional systems.
Speaker 1 expresses excitement about the potential for certificates and capstone projects related to empathy circles.
Transcript
Edwin Rutsch 0:07
The recorded room. Yep,
Janna Weiss 0:09
all right. I'll keep track of the time. And how many minutes? Three minutes. We said three minutes. Here we go, and so who would like to be the first listener, and who would like to be the first speaker, since all of us have experience here. Celine, would you like to be the first listener? Sure, and Julian, we haven't heard you yet today. Would you like to be the first speaker?
Speaker 1 0:46
Absolutely,
Janna Weiss 0:50
go ahead.
Speaker 1 0:51
Okay, so I think the question was something about your ideas for building the empathy movement, and so I'll start with that. I'm a PhD student at Indiana University Bloomington in psychology and cognitive science, and I study things like morality and viewpoint diversity.
Selene Aitken 1:12
Okay, thanks for pausing. So, I hear that you are going to address building an empathy movement. How to build an empathy movement. You're a PhD student in psychology, and I didn't get the last part.
Speaker 1 1:32
Cognitive science.
Selene Aitken 1:35
Say again,
Speaker 1 1:37
cognitive science.
Selene Aitken 1:38
Okay, I got it. Cognitive science. Wonderful. I'm
Speaker 1 1:42
Thanks. Yeah, so I guess I try to approach empathy and building the empathy movement, because I really, I love empathy. I love studying it, trying to build it by getting at the core mechanisms of empathy, and what works with empathy, and what doesn't, what's performative or not, kind of like Kevin was talking about.
Selene Aitken 2:10
So, you love empathy, love the idea of the of the empathy movement, and your focus is on the core mechanism of the empathy circle process, I guess.
Speaker 1 2:27
Yeah, exactly, exactly. I work on depolarization and helping people bridge divides, especially politically, but could be based on other kind of divides too, and I find empathy to be an important part of this process, but it's like you have to do the empathy right. If you just kind of force people into conversations they don't want to be in, it's harder to reach that. So I'm trying to see what works well with empathy circles. So your focus a lot is
Selene Aitken 3:00
on depolarization, on bridging divides, and for you, empathy is an important part of this process and project, and it has to be done right, or it will not work.
Speaker 1 3:18
Yeah, exactly. And being in academia, there's a lot of stuff, as a lot of you know out right now, about against empathy or dark sides of empathy, and so I want to help build the empathy movement within academia as well by showing what I think true or real empathy is and distinguishing from some of those more negative kinds of empathy,
Selene Aitken 3:41
okay, so you say that in academia there's a lot of energy against empathy, and and you want to show what real empathy
Speaker 1 3:57
is. Yes, I am. Thank you. I feel heard.
Selene Aitken 3:59
Thank you. Okay. okay. So, who would be the listener? Pick your listeners, Lynn. Okay. You know, I have not been thinking a lot about the larger picture of the empathy movement and building an empathy movement. You're
Janna Weiss 4:40
speaking to me. Who are you speaking to?
Selene Aitken 4:42
Oh, I thought I was
Janna Weiss 4:43
okay. So, you haven't thought much about about building an empathy movement, and about the bigger picture,
Selene Aitken 4:54
and my challenge, whenever I have offered, not whenever, but some. Times when I have offered doing an empathy circle or with a particular group is an unwillingness, I think, to commit that time,
Janna Weiss 5:16
and the one, I guess, obstacle that you've encountered when you suggest offered to do an empathy circle with a group is the unwillingness to commit the time,
Selene Aitken 5:28
and I get disheartened by that, because I think people so easily will invest an hour in things that I think don't, don't offer the same quality of return, put it that way.
Janna Weiss 5:47
Okay, and I don't recall exactly what word, but you get a little discouraged by that, because you think that we might be spending our time in something that doesn't bring as much return,
Selene Aitken 6:02
so I practice in individual situations, and hoping at some point somebody will say, "Wow, I feel so hurt. How did you learn to do that? You know, and then it opens up the door,
Janna Weiss 6:22
and so you practice in individual one on one conversations, and you're just kind of hoping and waiting that somebody might notice what you're doing, and would then say, "Oh, where did you learn that, and how can I learn to do that? Waiting for the invitation,
Selene Aitken 6:37
yeah, and personally, as you may notice, I have a very slow pace, and I always have, and I, it's one of the many ways in which I don't fit,
Janna Weiss 6:55
and you're sharing that you have a slow pace, and that you always have had a slow pace, and that it's one of the ways that you don't fit.
Selene Aitken 7:03
Yes, so I wish I were offering suggestions and great ideas, but right now I'm, I'm just warming up to how, how to create the best campaign,
Janna Weiss 7:22
so you're not full of suggestions and ideas, and you're kind of apologizing for that, but you're just warming up and start reflecting. You're going to start reflecting on how to best create the best campaign.
Selene Aitken 7:37
Thank you. I feel fully heard. Thanks.
Janna Weiss 7:39
Sure, um Mahib, would you like to listen to me? Well, you know, I just want to say, like Larry always does, you know, I love empathy circles.
Speaker 2 8:00
Let me see that you're feeling the wow and love for empathy.
Janna Weiss 8:05
Yeah, the presentations were absolutely awesome.
Speaker 2 8:11
The presentations were awesome.
Janna Weiss 8:14
Yeah, you want me to say more? You're a psychologist, you're used to more.
Speaker 2 8:19
I can take, I can handle more. Okay,
Janna Weiss 8:22
you can reflect that. Sorry, sir.
Speaker 2 8:28
You're thinking, like, hood. Did you guys see more? You're a psychologist, you might be used to more.
Janna Weiss 8:34
Yeah, I'm going to share that. I grew up with a father who didn't listen so well.
Speaker 2 8:39
You want to share that you grew up with a father who didn't listen,
Janna Weiss 8:44
yeah. And so I learned to say to say what I needed to say very fast, you know, in a very short time.
Speaker 2 8:51
So you learn to say very in short times.
Janna Weiss 8:57
Yes, I think that what Celine shared about being slow, I think that's a real gift.
Speaker 2 9:03
That's what Celine shared about being slow, that you see that as a gift.
Janna Weiss 9:08
Yeah, because there's always some kind of nervousness and rushedness in the, in the getting it out fast.
Speaker 2 9:15
There's the rushness of getting it out fast, so you're appreciating the slowness,
Janna Weiss 9:22
yeah, and then I'll share that when I went into academia for my PhD, there are a lot of very busy professors who had very short time and attention spans,
Speaker 2 9:35
and then academia, you had experiences with professors who are busy and had very small amount of times,
Janna Weiss 9:42
so again, that skill that I acquired in childhood was very useful. You know, when you speak to managers, when you speak to congressional staffers, you know, when you speak to academicians who have, you know, large budgets, you know, you want to get it in a very short time and be time efficient. It, so that's a blessing, but at the same time the empathy circle slow things down, and that is a really great blessing for myself, for humanity. Thank you. I feel you to share, so let me listen, and then I'll
Speaker 3 10:15
feel
Speaker 2 10:17
so you're appreciating the, you're taking that as a blessing, but you learn to speak in small chunks, as while growing up, and then it was helpful in different aspects, political campaigns, like talking to these different groups of people, and you're also appreciating the blessing of empathy circles, because it slows you down, which is a different kind of gift, and, and you feel heard already.
Janna Weiss 10:41
Thank you, Louis. Thank you.
Speaker 4 10:44
Okay, Derry, would you listen?
Speaker 5 10:52
I'd be happy to. Mahi,
Speaker 2 10:54
sure. Okay, so I'm, yeah, I'm so happy to be here. It's been a while since I, yeah, did an empathy circle. It was so frequent when I was in Santa Barbara, California, because I was in the group and you're showing up every week, but now, since I moved to the East Coast, it's been really limited. So, I'm really happy that I'm here today.
Speaker 5 11:17
Oh, your relocation really changed your empathy circle access, and you're finding that now, even being transplanted there, you're so happy to have this access right now today, and it's reminding you of Santa Barbara, your Santa Barbara time.
Speaker 2 11:33
And also, I was reflecting that my work is so private, being in therapy because of confidentiality, so I, and plus I'm on online, so I don't get to share my work with people, so I'm really grateful for today that I got to talk about, yeah, my work, which is so secretive in a way, for whatever reasons that I could, yeah, share it with so many people, so I'm very happy.
Speaker 5 12:03
You're, you're feeling so much happiness because you had an opportunity to share about your work today with other people, and usually it's, it's a large part of your experience that's just very private.
Speaker 2 12:18
And then, how I see the empathy movement is because of my current setup, and with young children at home, the only way I'm contributing to the empathy movement is through my work, which is divided into providing therapy and also supervising three associates, so I teach them empathy, empathic listening in super group supervision. So these are two ways it's showing up.
Speaker 5 12:49
So your participation in the empathy movement show up in these two ways in the actual therapy sessions, and then in the supervising of the associates.
Speaker 2 13:00
Yeah,
Speaker 6 13:01
I like to
Speaker 2 13:07
engage more or give more, but I am also checking with my current reality, and I think what I'm doing, I need to come to the realization that that is enough for now. In future, in few years, I can do more.
Speaker 5 13:25
Yeah, and there's the reality of family life. You have young children at home, so even though you have the drive to do more empathy, you have to keep things in balance and expand the empathy activities in a few years when that becomes more available, do yeah,
Speaker 7 13:44
I feel hurt. Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 13:47
Thank you, Maheep Edwin. Will you please listen to me? Well, one thing I'm doing right now is to help with the empathy in the world is increasing my self empathy,
Edwin Rutsch 14:06
otherwise that you're supporting empathy is deepening your own self empathy.
Speaker 5 14:12
Yeah, and I require, I notice I need a lot of structure for that,
Edwin Rutsch 14:20
I need a lot of structure. Here's just noticing that takes a lot of structure. You need a lot of structure for that.
Speaker 5 14:27
Yeah, and that's a growth edge for me to, you know, get to my journal more often and be there for what's arising in myself,
Edwin Rutsch 14:37
and like, hold taking it, doing your journal, and being there for yourself and writing,
Speaker 5 14:44
so I'm working on that, and I also find that it's really helping me to practice Sanskrit mantra chanting.
Edwin Rutsch 15:01
So chanting is helping you, you're noticing that,
Speaker 5 15:06
yeah, I am in a course right now that is really directed towards more simple practices that increase resonance in the nervous system with the quality of sound, so like if the sound is about clarity or creativity, then you might find that all of a sudden you have a lot more space for clarity,
Edwin Rutsch 15:31
so you're taking a course that's actually teaching how to make sounds that support having a sense of a feeling of clarity,
Speaker 5 15:41
yeah, and I find that this is being helping me be very efficient, because this year I decided I really enjoy sharing empathy circles as a weekend event with the bagel toning practices, the chanting, and then the circles after, like, as a something you might go to instead of a concert or games, or whatever the meaningful thing. Yeah,
Edwin Rutsch 16:10
yeah. So you're enjoying hosting empathy circles with your vagal toning and having spaces that people can go to to experience that versus go doing some other events,
Speaker 5 16:24
yeah. And then I can hang out with them too, gives you a
Edwin Rutsch 16:27
chance to hang out with the people, friends,
Speaker 5 16:32
yeah. And it, I just so happen to be a singer, and I love to sing, and I'm a, you have a yoga background, so I'm doing this sound yoga training. It sounds yoga is very popular now, but I, and I think it will be, it will draw people to be able to do sound yoga inclusively with the body practice, this, the chanting with the correct pronunciation, and the empathy circles, the very full experience.
Edwin Rutsch 16:58
So you're bringing together empathy circles with yoga sound and sort of body experiences, and you just sound like you enjoy that, and that's sort of the direction you're going, increasing that.
Speaker 5 17:16
Yes. Thank you.
Edwin Rutsch 17:17
Okay. Thank you, Gillian. Speak to you,
Speaker 1 17:22
yep, listening,
Edwin Rutsch 17:24
yeah, I love the presentations, it's just so rich and varied, and just seeing how people are using empathy circles and bring it into their own lives in different ways, so I see the empathy circles as sort of a gateway practice, and you know, you just, you kind of build it into your, your life and your own sort of practices.
Speaker 1 17:47
Yeah, you've been really excited how the presentations have taken Empathy Circle and use them in their own different ways to achieve different goals. So, you see, Empathy Circle is kind of a jumping off point that everybody's using to then do a lot of cool things.
Edwin Rutsch 18:04
Yeah, it's in terms of building a movement. I see it as foundational to it, because it kind of gives you a starting space. You just keep building, expanding from there. So, I'm just seeing it through all these presentations, how people are actually, actually doing that. So, that feels, you know, really good.
Speaker 1 18:23
Yeah, it feels really good to see the empathy circle being used in different ways, but as a, as a foundation, and that jumping off point to be able to do lots of different things,
Edwin Rutsch 18:35
and sort of thinking of what Celine was saying about, you know, some people are sort of, there's sort of blocks to empathy, people are in so empathy circles, or empathy, so well interested in taking part. I think that's what the empathy movement is about, is to make it more, more accepted or higher profile, something, so it doesn't seem like such an odd thing. You get the president can't, presidential candidates doing empathy circles, everybody sees it and says, oh, we can do that at home, like people have talked about, or do with my friends, and so forth. So I think that's part of the movement is sort of popularizing or making that shift.
Speaker 1 19:19
Yeah, yeah, you, you see, like others have talked about that there's a block for some people in wanting to engage in empathy or seeing the value in doing stuff like this, and so if we're able to get it more normalized, and you know, maybe even have political elites participating in empathy circles, that could help to get more people on board instead of having a kind of weird reaction to it,
Edwin Rutsch 19:43
and I really liked Kevin's presentation, because it prepared sort of this - he's calling it performative, but standard demonstrations versus another type of a demonstration would be an empathic demonstration, and that's something I really. Been wanting to develop, and I've been looking at this idea of occupy empathy, where we occupy a space and sort of put some pressure on the power systems to take part in empathy circles, you know, kind of be more assertive, sort of like Gandhi's march to the sea for salt, or whatever, so it's a march to wherever, for you know, mutual empathy.
Speaker 1 20:27
Yeah, so Kevin's presentation did a great job of distinguishing between, you know, the the outward demonstration for one side of a cause versus just the main cause of empathy and searching for that, no matter on what side of the spectrum you're on.
Edwin Rutsch 20:45
Yeah, I feel very hurt. Thank you.
Janna Weiss 20:50
Celine hasn't listened yet, so if you'd like to pick.. Oh,
Speaker 1 20:53
Celine, sure. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, what? What Edwin said, he said something in the last round about some people having a block of wanting to engage in empathy, and I kind of wanted to explore that a little further.
Selene Aitken 21:13
Okay, so you were noticing what what Edwin said about some people having a block to empathy, and you'd like to explore that a little,
Speaker 1 21:23
yeah, yeah, and I like, I mentioned the first time I have gotten interested in exploring it within the realm of academia, and what they talk about with spotlight empathy or other types of empathy, but I also think I have another perspective to share on it that relates,
Selene Aitken 21:41
so you've talked about, and how in academia there is something called spotlight empathy, and how it's treated, and you, you want to look at a different from a different angle.
Speaker 1 21:54
Yeah, exactly. This is something that I'm just thinking about right now, but when you talk about there being kind of a weirdness to hearing empathy circle or wanting to engage in a workshop for empathy. I definitely feel that weirdness.
Selene Aitken 22:11
So, when people, you think, respond to the idea of an empathy workshop or circle or something, and there's weird about it, you, you understand what that's about.
Speaker 1 22:23
Yeah, I do. I feel like I have that instinct, like my dad is a computer scientist, my mom was a lawyer, and so both of them were very just like straightforward people, and like success-oriented, and things like that. So things like mental health, or you know, sleep, or something kind of took a back seat, and so I do have that instinct of, like, is this worth my time? Like, what am I going to get out of this, besides something emotional? I don't know.
Selene Aitken 22:50
So, in your upbringing with your parents, things were kind of like straightforward and nothing kind of out of the ordinary or dealing with soft issues like mental health, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1 23:09
that's a great way to put it. And so I feel like one of my goals of building the empathy movement, besides building it in academia, is also building it for people that have that instinct, because I have found some kind of value in it that's hard to put into words, and I'm still exploring, but I know there's a lot of people out there that are having more trouble getting past that block to actually engage,
Selene Aitken 23:37
so you feel that your experience, I mean, you have the experience in academia, but you also have, I don't know, the an alternative view, maybe that sees the value because of the value you've experienced, and you think you can communicate this to people exactly, yeah, bridging that, that gap, since I've kind of seen both sides of it.
Janna Weiss 24:08
I feel purging
Selene Aitken 24:09
the gap from academia, say, to more ordinary.
Speaker 1 24:14
Thank you so much. I feel heard.
Selene Aitken 24:21
Okay, so let's see. Terry, would you listen to me?
Speaker 5 24:31
Love to listen to you, Celine.
Selene Aitken 24:33
Okay. Thank you. First of all, I feel some sadness as I reflect on this, what is it? Seeming resistance to slowing down and engaging with each other in, in the empathy. Circle way,
Speaker 5 25:03
then when you perceive this resistance to slowing down and having an empathy circle experience together, your your body feels the sadness of your response.
Selene Aitken 25:18
Well, yes, not my response, but something I believe I've experienced from other people, and it's kind of like we have to have a goal that we're working towards, or something measurable, and because we're so busy with other things, and that's, I think, a loss,
Speaker 5 25:47
and your sadness is related to this way. It's not your way of being, but others. When there's always the goal and something measurable for what we're doing, that orientation can miss something that's valuable. It feels like a loss.
Selene Aitken 26:04
Yes, I think of and then I want to be practical. What might work, and maybe a short film at a film festival about the the wonders of such and such an empathy circle, and what it's been able to achieve,
Speaker 5 26:27
and practical ideas start to come to mind, like maybe this could be, you know, this information could be disseminated a film at a film festival with the focused on this is what empathy circles actually achieve, so people could see that,
Selene Aitken 26:43
and then I had an another idea, as a sometime activist, that we could have a march to somewhere where we then sit in circles and have empathy circles, with, of course, with signs and stuff,
Speaker 5 27:01
and then your activist self has an idea of like there's a march to somewhere, and then everybody's sitting in circles and doing empathy, and they have their signs right there.
Selene Aitken 27:10
Yeah, I actually think that would be fantastic to do. So, anyway, I'm, I'm, I'm piqued by this question of how to expand and promote and engage more and different people in the empathy circle process. You're,
Speaker 5 27:39
and you're excited about the empathy practice march, and now your interest is really piqued about this question about how to spread awareness of this practice and process.
Selene Aitken 27:52
Yes. Thank you very much. I feel well heard.
Speaker 5 27:56
Thanks, Celine Mahi. Would you please listen to me. Yeah, I think, am I my experience of wanting to share empathy practices has been going on for about, like, seven years now.
Speaker 2 28:31
You're reflecting back and seeing it's been seven years since you started practicing empathy
Speaker 5 28:38
circuits, empathy practices,
Speaker 2 28:40
empathy practices,
Speaker 5 28:43
yeah, and along the way I've had, like, a lot of grief about the effect of non-empathy in my life,
Speaker 2 28:55
and along the way, you also experience grief from not having, not experiencing empathy in your life,
Speaker 5 29:02
yeah, yeah, and like this really ferocious aspect of me that wants others to do the practice,
Speaker 2 29:12
and you're aware of this very ferocious part of you who wants others to practice empathy,
Janna Weiss 29:18
yeah, and
Speaker 5 29:23
yeah, there's reinforcing that I learned through recent events that my myself empathy and my ability to extend empathy,
Speaker 2 29:42
your voice cracked a little,
Speaker 5 29:48
are not present, is where ability to extend empathy when others is that better.
Speaker 2 29:57
Yeah, it came back now. Yeah, but I. Just the middle of what you're shading,
Edwin Rutsch 30:06
you want to say it again. I think bandwidth, maybe. If you, if you turn your video
Speaker 5 30:14
empathy, turn video off. Can you hear me now?
Speaker 3 30:20
Yeah,
Speaker 5 30:22
yeah, just wanting to reiterate that, like, self-empathy, and also being able to have empathy for others when, when they are, you know, maybe activated, is where I need to practice right now myself,
Speaker 2 30:39
so you're focusing on developing more self-empathy, and especially when in times of activation, how to practice empathy has become more focused.
Speaker 5 30:52
Yeah, and I, I feel I think, and feel that this is powerful to just anchor me in the field of empathy,
Speaker 2 31:05
and you're identifying this as a powerful tool for anchoring you in the empathy movement.
Speaker 5 31:12
Yeah, I think of empathy as an energy that is always available.
Speaker 2 31:17
You see, empathy as an energy that's always available,
Speaker 5 31:22
and if I make myself more available to it, it will show me what to do next to increase itself,
Speaker 2 31:30
and if you make yourself available to it, it will show you the direction.
Speaker 5 31:36
Yeah. Thank you, Mahi. I feel hurt. Thank
Speaker 8 31:41
you for sharing, Jana. Okay, good to hear me.
Janna Weiss 31:48
Sure,
Speaker 2 31:51
yeah, I am just listening to everyone and sitting with the experiences as well as ideas that are coming up in this group,
Janna Weiss 32:05
so you're just kind of listening and appreciating all these ideas that are bubbling up here,
Speaker 2 32:15
and I don't have a sense of direction or an idea yet, I'm just enjoying that energy, just like this presence,
Janna Weiss 32:27
and you're just appreciating the energy. You don't have any specific idea yet, but you're just enjoying the presence and the energy, you
Speaker 8 32:46
Yeah,
Speaker 2 32:47
and as I think deeply about the movement, I keep going back to its.. I don't have to move anywhere for the moment, it's like more doing exactly what I'm doing, and living it, embodying it. That's my movement
Janna Weiss 33:11
regarding the movement, the empathy movement. You don't feel like you need to go anywhere, you just, you're embodying empathy, and just to keep doing what you're doing, and that is the movement.
Speaker 2 33:21
Yeah. that's what came up for you, for me, when I tapped into that, the presence or the energy, like, yeah, just keep living and keep embodying this way of being, and that's that's my role right now,
Janna Weiss 33:40
so when you tap into this energy of empathy and you reflect on what comes up for you, that's what comes up for you, right now, just this way of being, embodying, and this way of being,
Speaker 2 33:59
and I feel that people who are ready for this way of being are naturally coming to me through my work or through education or through the circles or networks I'm part of, so I get to just be who I am and engage and contribute in the movement just by staying or keeping things the same way that the people are coming to me, that's how it feels like right now.
Janna Weiss 34:35
So you're letting people find you, and you trust that the people who are drawn to this practice will come to you and are finding you, and so you don't just need to stay where you are, and the movement will happen towards you and expand from you.
Speaker 9 34:53
Yes, I feel hurt. Thank you so much.
Janna Weiss 34:57
Edwin, would you like to listen?
Edwin Rutsch 35:00
Let's look,
Janna Weiss 35:01
yeah, so when I heard my heat earlier, and now what comes to mind is like growing a really deep, stable tap root, you know, like a good solid foundation, so that when person-centered therapy 2.0 emerges and takes over the world. It will have a strong solid grounding.
Edwin Rutsch 35:31
So, the metaphor that's coming to mind, you know, when you hear Mahi speaking, it's about growing these really deep roots, creating a really strong foundation, so when the time is right, you know, the flower, you know, the plant will grow, you know, really well.
Janna Weiss 35:51
Yeah, and yeah, just a delight to hear, you know, how my heap uses empathy circles, you know, the empathy practice in therapy, and then you know Kevin in his workplace at the university for young people, and Dean and family. Wow, I mean, just like incredible. And then you know Celine, you know, bringing it to groups. I'm going to invite you, I yeah,
Edwin Rutsch 36:23
so just hearing all, how all these people are using empathy circles. I mean, just sounds like you're very energized by that.
Janna Weiss 36:32
Yeah, and appreciating, appreciating also Terry's self-empathy practice, and sharing it with us,
Edwin Rutsch 36:38
and just pointing out all the different people, and how they're applying it, and just an appreciation for each of them.
Janna Weiss 36:46
Yeah, sure. Yeah, even though Jillian didn't present this time, tackling that definition, and that's really courageous. It's a big, big sword to wield, sort of late,
Edwin Rutsch 37:04
yeah, you're appreciating Jillian too, with the work she's like everyone sort of working in their own way on, you know, moving this forward,
Janna Weiss 37:12
yeah, and of course we all appreciate Edwin,
Edwin Rutsch 37:15
some appreciation for me too,
Janna Weiss 37:18
yeah, and yeah, I guess I'll also share that I'm an acupuncturist, so you know these vagal turning points not difficult to remember and to recognize, like brightening the eyes. Thank you for that.
Edwin Rutsch 37:31
Yeah, more gratitude for the body work, because you have an acupuncture background, sort of an awareness of the body.
Janna Weiss 37:40
Yeah, and yeah, so of course you know I would love empathy circles to reach 8 billion people, and I have all kinds of ideas that I'm kind of doors that are opening, I think now for that to happen, and that if I have another turn I'll share that. Thank you so much.
Edwin Rutsch 37:57
So you're sharing that you do have that goal of training, teaching 8 billion people in the world how to do the empathy circles, and just some doors opening up for kind of moving that idea forward.
Janna Weiss 38:10
Thanks. I feel
Edwin Rutsch 38:11
very okay. Terry speaks to you. Are you there, Terry? Just maybe want to
Speaker 5 38:21
love to listen, might turn your video
Edwin Rutsch 38:23
off, or just yours, little bit of lag, just yeah. Oh, there we go, yeah. In terms of building the empathy movement, so that one of the first steps towards that was just having the idea that it's part of a movement, so that's what we've been trying to promote, people thinking about, hey, this is a bigger movement. It's just not a lot of individuals doing, you know, their work, but part of a really a movement to change the culture.
Speaker 5 38:53
The so the first part of building equity movement is helping people understand that this is a movement with many people engaged. It's not just a few of individuals, and there's an idea that this can promote culture change, and you wanting people to understand that.
Edwin Rutsch 39:09
And another part has been hosting these summits, and thanks to Jenna for being one of the organizers of this together, is.. and it's just hearing it's just unless we hold these summits, we don't hear all these different stories, which are just, yeah, Janice shaking her head, yes, because it's so gratifying to hear all these individual stories that we don't hear without this space for everyone to share them, so it's, yeah, it's very exciting,
Speaker 5 39:38
yeah, and you're excited, the because after sharing that there's a movement, then the summits come in, where there gets to be a showcase of the people in the movement, and we get to hear everyone's stories about where they are and what they're doing.
Edwin Rutsch 39:51
Yeah, so you can see the sort of the ripple effect, I mean, just the impact, like on Dean and the impact of my heap and everyone else. On the individuals that they've touched, too. I mean, it's very gratifying. It feels really good to know that we've contributed, you know, to that in a positive way. You know, there's.. there's a positive energy that, you know,
Speaker 5 40:16
yeah. It's gratifying to see the generative contribution of empathy practice, and of how it translates into the lives of people, like Mahi was sharing with his client about his clients,
Edwin Rutsch 40:29
and the other is project we just started was setting up a training curriculum, so that's a project we're going to start with an on sort of a public domain empathy training curriculum, we have some trainings already, but to expand on that and make it really easy to for people to create trainings, and I can really see with what my heap is doing, a training on training therapists, you know, I think that would be, I can see that sort of developing, mm.
Speaker 5 41:02
and then another strategy to help the movement is having this training available in the public domain and making it accessible for different people in different areas, such as therapists,
Edwin Rutsch 41:15
and the other is an activism, taking our empathy tent out and being more activist, and that piece that Kevin put out there, I can, we can, that's really well done, and I think can really help us with that, a new type of empathic activism. Yeah, it's really, I can really, it's given me energy for that,
Speaker 5 41:40
and you have energy, you have movement around just taking the empathy tent out and having that be a new kind of activism, and and Kevin's presentation touched on that as well.
Edwin Rutsch 41:51
Yeah. Thank you.
Speaker 5 41:54
Thank you, Edwin. So, I has everyone had two speaking terms, Jana. Everyone has had, okay,
Janna Weiss 42:01
yeah.
Speaker 5 42:05
Celine, would you be willing to listen to me?
Selene Aitken 42:08
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 5 42:12
I wish I much prefer to have my video on, but I'm worried that my, that my internet will cause a problem. Will you just let me know if I need to turn it off?
Speaker 3 42:23
Okay.
Speaker 5 42:25
Yeah, I, I so appreciate getting to hear everyone's ideas, and I know these stories will stay with me.
Selene Aitken 42:34
So, you're, you appreciate hearing everybody's stories, and you know that they will still stay with you, you'll be thinking about them.
Speaker 5 42:46
Yeah, yeah, it's.. it's nice to just pause a moment and consider everything that I've heard today and seen
Selene Aitken 43:01
till you're taking a moment to pause and consider everything that you've heard and seen, and kind of digesting
Speaker 5 43:12
it. Yeah, it really brings up a lot
Speaker 3 43:16
of hope
Speaker 5 43:18
and joy for me,
Speaker 3 43:21
I
Selene Aitken 43:24
I didn't hear everything, but I heard something about enjoy, enjoyment of it brings up a lot. Yeah, let's try that this way. It
Speaker 5 43:39
really brings up a lot of hope and joy for me,
Selene Aitken 43:45
so it brings you hope and joy to experience this, be part of this.
Speaker 5 43:58
Yeah, it brings me a quantity of hope and joy that is much greater than many other strategies I see in the world today,
Selene Aitken 44:11
so it brings you a lot of hope and joy, more than many of the other experiences, and that you have and seek,
Speaker 5 44:26
yeah, it's a, it's a relation of my social engagement nervous system to be part of the movement,
Selene Aitken 44:42
I didn't hear all that you said, but I heard something about I'm going to add a little guess, your appreciation for your involvement, and that it gives you hope, and you are happy to be part of this. Movement,
Speaker 5 45:02
it's, it's that I feel so much nourishing energy in my heart, in my face.
Selene Aitken 45:11
I got that, that it, it, there's so much nourishment for you in your heart and your, your faith, your soul, I guess, from this from the empathy movement, empathy circle movement.
Speaker 5 45:30
Yep. Thank you. I feel hurt. Thank you.
Selene Aitken 45:38
So, Jana, are we at time or do another
Edwin Rutsch 45:43
almost 15 minutes to go? Oh,
Selene Aitken 45:45
okay, okay. Wrote some things down.
Janna Weiss 45:57
Take a listener.
Selene Aitken 45:59
Yeah, Jana, I'll ask you again, so I'm going to share from my personal situation with a little vulnerability,
Janna Weiss 46:19
so you know venture a little vulnerability here.
Selene Aitken 46:23
I have more emotion there than I anticipated, but I'll, I'll push it down door, and
Janna Weiss 46:34
you're sharing that emotion is coming up for you, but you'll make it disappear. No worries,
Selene Aitken 46:40
I I am, I guess, caregiving my partner, who has an awful and ongoing illness that is very creates a lot of limitations for her,
Janna Weiss 47:06
so you're caregiving your partner, and she has a, an illness that has a lot of limitations,
Selene Aitken 47:15
and so I, I notice, you know, how I relate, and and the empathy that is, that is very careful, and to not impose myself, my worries, my concerns to leave a lot of room for her expressions,
Janna Weiss 47:53
so you acknowledging that caregiving for her requires a lot of empathy from you in kind of leaving her a lot of space and not expressing your worries and your concerns, not sharing them, not taking up space with yourself there,
Selene Aitken 48:13
and also not imagining or speaking for her or any of those things, and I think these are skills that I learned in the empathy circle practice to, to allow to not imagine that I know, and therefore you know, become an authority on her experience,
Janna Weiss 48:38
and also the practice has enabled you to be very careful in not becoming an authority for her, and not speaking for her, but to acknowledge and allow her her experience.
Selene Aitken 48:51
Yes, and this is so I realize now, automatic and comfortable, and I truly do attribute it to the skills I've learned in the empathy circles,
Janna Weiss 49:05
and you're saying that this is so automatic now for you, and you're very comfortable with this, and it's very natural for you, and you attribute this to the empathy circle skills that you acquired through practice, through ongoing practice.
Selene Aitken 49:19
Thank you very much. I feel heard.
Janna Weiss 49:22
Jillian, would you like to listen to me? Yes, it was something that Terry shared about connecting with the energy of empathy.
Speaker 1 49:42
You want to explore something Terry said about connecting energy empathy.
Janna Weiss 49:46
Yeah, I recently listened to a presentation by a woman who channels money. She connects with the energy of money, and she channels money for people.
Speaker 1 49:57
Listen, he listened to a presentation recently. About a woman who can channel the energy of money.
Janna Weiss 50:03
Yeah, she's really lovely, and it's very beautiful what she does. But I guess Terry might be our first empathy channeler, and then we'll all learn to channel empathy. Yeah, you're wondering
Speaker 1 50:15
the woman channeling money if we can also learn to channel empathy.
Janna Weiss 50:20
Yeah. That, and so I'll share some of my aspirations for this global empathy movement. So we're Edwin, and I were dialoguing quite a bit about bridging divides and political divides with empathy, with empathy circles.
Speaker 1 50:41
Yeah, you and Edwin have chatted recently about bridging political vibes, divides by using empathy circles,
Janna Weiss 50:48
and every time we talked, we kept circling around back to braver angels.
Speaker 1 50:52
You kept circling back to braver angels, and you would talk about
Janna Weiss 50:55
it. Yeah, and I actually kind of added an aside that I really wondered whether Kevin Waldman is connected to Braver Angels or not, and he would really love it.
Speaker 1 51:05
Yeah, you were wondering if Kevin was connected to Braver Angels, and you'd like to maybe explore that further with him.
Janna Weiss 51:12
So, so now the Empathy Center is an official member organization of Braver Network, the Braver Angels Network, and we have free memberships for anyone who wants to join Braver Angels, and oh
Speaker 1 51:27
man, you're like free, free membership for the next 10 seconds if you can respond, that's really cool. Yeah, that you guys are now part of that Braver Angels network.
Janna Weiss 51:40
Well, it's all of us, right? It's all of us who participate in empathy circles, right? That's you too. And we got 100 free memberships, so some of them have been grabbed up, but you can grab up some of those.
Speaker 1 51:52
I can, I can grab a spot if I like. There's more, more memberships available. Wow, you guys got 100 memberships for those that do empathy circles?
Janna Weiss 52:01
Yeah, and then I reached out to Maoz and Aziz. I don't know if you've heard them, the Palestinian and Israeli who did a TED talk together. They're both bereaved from the conflict, and they have a new book, and it's called Future is Peace.
Speaker 1 52:20
Wow, so a representative, a Palestinian and an Israeli, who are both bereaved, did a TED talk together and have since written a book that has to do with bridging divides, probably.
Janna Weiss 52:30
Yeah, I feel heard. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 52:33
Thank you.
Janna Weiss 52:35
Next step.
Speaker 1 52:37
Great, my heat, you want to go, you want to listen.
Speaker 2 52:44
Yes.
Speaker 1 52:46
All right. Well, I am now going to be part of Braver Angels, so that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 52:54
You're very excited about being part of the Braver Braver Angels.
Speaker 1 52:58
Yeah, yeah, Braver Angels actually is some, it's an organization that I've looked at as I've explored someplace that I want to work with closely. I really like the stuff that they do, and I've been trying to get more involved in the Southern Indiana network of it, but I've just been so busy. So, maybe this will be a good push for me to get more involved.
Speaker 2 53:19
So, you were already exploring this organization before, wanted to be part of them, and now this looks like a great opportunity to push you into them.
Speaker 1 53:28
Exactly, yeah, because I do something kind of similar to Edwin. I'm working on a game designed to measure moral decision making, and similarly to Empathy Circle, the idea is that it's kind of a jumping off point, you can do this, this test, and then do programming with it after that,
Speaker 2 53:44
so you do something similar to Edwin, and you have this game design, and you're thinking about this piloting something that is something, and then take it from there.
Speaker 1 53:56
Yeah, so I can see it be being used in lots of different spheres, so like moral education or character education, but civic education as well, and learning viewpoint diversity. Oh, you have more autonomous values versus I'm more communal, like, can I see that from the other perspective now that we have the language
Speaker 2 54:14
to do it? So, you are, you have a design for this project in mind, helping people look at themselves from different perspectives, and then come to more closer to,
Speaker 1 54:25
yeah, exactly, exactly. So, Braver Angels, that would be really cool. In my experience, it seems like a lot of members are older and Braver Angels. I'm not sure if that's right, but then also Bridge USA is another one that's similar, and that might be more like undergrads, so there might be a different population for the two of those, but Bridge USA is another one that I like.
Speaker 2 54:47
So Bridge USA and Braven, just you're these, you're reflecting on these two organizations, and maybe they're, and then you're looking at the demographics, maybe they are more older people involved, and maybe the other one has more undergrads. Yeah,
Speaker 1 55:02
yes, exactly, but my, my game is intended to also offer a methodology that can be adapted to older generations, or younger, even like K through 12. I would love to see, which I see is similar to empathy circles. You could do empathy circles with older people, or you could, you did them with kids, you know, you never know what they're going to say, but then you can train kids with empathy circles to be able to listen better at a young age,
Speaker 2 55:26
so your game is adaptable, like just like empathy circles can be given to older people, else also the kids. Your game design is also that way, and you're again, you're experiencing a lot of excitement thinking about it.
Speaker 1 55:41
Yeah, definitely, yeah, it's this is really having me start to reflect more on different populations, and especially older. I've thought about K through 12 quite a bit, and undergrads, obviously, but yeah, the connection of Braver Angels getting excited.
Speaker 2 55:54
So, connection of Braver Angels is getting you excited, and you're also excited about connecting it to this, get to get through trail 12, and these different age groups
Speaker 1 56:05
exactly. Thank you, Ahip. I feel heard.
Edwin Rutsch 56:08
We only have about two minutes left, so probably not enough for doing another round. We want to do a debrief or something.
Speaker 2 56:20
Are you asking me or
Edwin Rutsch 56:22
each of us, maybe Janet, maybe she was facilitating, but
Janna Weiss 56:27
no, that's fine. There's just something I want to share for Terry, but she's not here, which is that she's very humble, and she's really contributing significantly to the movement, because when we were in Phoenix, she's done, she's organized two in-person facilitator facilitator trainings in Phoenix. I've gone to both of them. She organized another day of praising you, Terry, so maybe your ears are turning red, and another full day of empathy circle event, a special event, and also she connected us with the ethical culture. We did an empathy circle event with them, so yeah, so not only self-empathy, but just to acknowledge that
Edwin Rutsch 57:14
I put the memberships there, so that's a link if you want to click on that, especially Jillian. If you're,
Speaker 1 57:20
yeah, you could have given me a five minute head start. Now everybody's getting it. Everybody's signing up. You're gonna be plenty.
Selene Aitken 57:27
Really cool.
Edwin Rutsch 57:34
Yeah, something just came to me that Kevin actually wrote an article critical of empathy, and it was in the newspaper, and some papers, and I reached out to him. I said, "Hey, would you do an interview and a dialog about empathy? And said, "Okay, we'll do it. And it was actually through having that discussion that he turned, totally turned around. Now he's a huge fan of the empathy circle, so that's where I always try to reach out to the critics, a lot of them won't talk to me, but I'm always confident that if we can just talk to them, if they can understand what we're talking about, that that will turn, you know, the critics around.
Selene Aitken 58:18
Wow, I would love to hear his story. story about the same thing you've just said, as Edwin.
Edwin Rutsch 58:29
Yeah, he sort of mentioned it a little bit. He didn't go into depth, or it would be interesting. Yeah, absolutely. I'm just going to close all the rooms, so we've got about 60 seconds before we'll be moved into the main room. Anyone else want to share before we close? And today, I hope you can talk about the curriculum, since you're actually Indiana, there, where you're at, has one of the top train learning centers, you know, training. Are you talking about
Speaker 1 59:04
that instructional system section? Yeah, so I've been looking into that more, and I actually met with the department head of it recently, who does group exercise with me. I teach group fitness class. Oh, and she, she does those. So, yeah, so I'm actually, I'm digging deeper into that. Oh,
Edwin Rutsch 59:18
great. Yeah, we get some of their students doing what they call a capstone, would be really great. That, yeah,
Speaker 1 59:25
no, and I think I can even do that. I think there's some stuff for like certificates available for grad students. Oh, that'd be cool, yeah.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai